Talk:Human
Can we move this to Hyrulians?--Herbsewell 23:03, 20 January 2007 (UTC) How come? Humans and Hyruleans are two different things. The term Hyrulian is used to describe anyone no mater what there race that they are from Hyrule (much like the term british is used to describe anyone from England). While the term Human is rarely used within the Zelda series, it is used in T.P to describe the race of Hylians that do not have pointy ears or magical abilities. I really don’t see why we would need to move this page. :----ShutUpNavi 02:12, 22 January 2007 (UTC) *A Hyrulean is anyone who lives in Hyrule while the Hylians are a specific race. There was a link that divulged more on this and I'm looking for it.--Herbsewell 02:45, 22 January 2007 (UTC) **Anyway, where does it state that they are actually human?--Herbsewell 02:50, 22 January 2007 (UTC) how on earth are you ment to know if general onox is a human? hes like fifteen times the size of one to start. Oni Dark Link 14:06, 11 April 2009 (UTC) Not all humans live in Hyrule, so yes they do need their own page.--991807 01:11, 25 April 2009 (UTC) Link But Link has the elf-ear trait that shows a Hylian. Midna Rocks Human Humans Gerudo, Hylia, Sheikah, and Wind Tribe are all called "human" at one point or another. Especially considering the fact that these tribes can evidently breed together (a main point of the whole "blood-thining" thing), they seem to be the only groups within the series that would actually count as "races" (real-world definition), and not "species". I don't think there's a name given for the generic version, but "human" as a "race" would definitely include all five (Greudo, Hylia, Sheikah, Wind, and generic).Log log5 (talk) 06:21, November 26, 2009 (UTC) Human may canonically be used as a generic term in Majora's mask. For example if Link talks to the photography guy(I can't remember his official name, but he's Tingle's dad) in Deku form, he states the photography contest is for humans only--Red 11 (talk) 21:05, February 12, 2010 (UTC) I don't care how long ago this was, but it's not only Deku form. Even in Goron and Zora forms.--Waker-of-the-Winds (talk) 18:02, May 6, 2010 (UTC) First appearence The article says the first appearence of humans was A Link to the Past. But Zelda:II races says that humans appeared in that game, too.--Waker-of-the-Winds (talk) 18:08, May 6, 2010 (UTC) um why do people contuite to think that the old games take place in the present.....for all we know the humans never replaced the hylians as the donmoite race of hyule. and im sick of people saying that they are the dominite race in twilight princess when all the npc in caslte town have pointed ears really comon peopel...i swaer all of you are pro human and are take the information fro mteh REAL zelda wiki and turning it into crap i have look on every offical game and nothign ever said that humans procede the hylians and fyi the reson you think that hylians are not in te first to games is that the graphic back then made it hard to get very detailed.DeirdreKent101 (talk) 02:16, February 8, 2011 (UTC) :Nothing points off either way and saying stuff like the "real Zelda Wiki" won't get you far on this one, especially considering you're implying that we plagiarize and make it crap... - McGillivray227 02:37, February 8, 2011 (UTC) Ok then if yoru theroys are correct then give me a link to an interview fro mteh creators of the game that state THAT HUMANS REPLACE HYLIANS in twilight princesss. and if not then most of the humans takign over is fan theroy.DeirdreKent101 (talk) 02:40, February 8, 2011 (UTC) An i dont get why people ay that humans are dominte in twlight princess when they only have a villge with 13 peopleand that humans are teh dominte race in hyrule when all of the npc in castle town have pointed ears. DeirdreKent101 (talk) 02:43, February 8, 2011 (UTC) :No theory is correct. I'm pretty sure the word "theory" implies the exact opposite. I never once said that they do become the dominate species either, just that the argument could go either way as you're saying it's the graphics, but it could easily have been done on purpose to portray people as human, rather than Hylian. - McGillivray227 02:46, February 8, 2011 (UTC) Well what i ment was on every artical in this site seems to think that since humans where preasent in a few games makes them dominte race i feel that soem users are takign a pro human stance that are based n what they see and i feel that we should not give the belife that they beocem dominte unless the delvopers of teh game say they do. and soe mthin kthat sicne most of the carcters in tw where human they think that they are dominte..DeirdreKent101 (talk) 02:49, February 8, 2011 (UTC) :Our articles simply say that if a character is clearly sporting the defining characteristics of a Hylian, then they are indeed Hylian, if not, they are human. And I can't see how three out of soon-to-be sixteen games is a pro-human stance. - McGillivray227 03:03, February 8, 2011 (UTC) look on the articals which mention hylians and look on the hylian atical its self.DeirdreKent101 (talk) 03:11, February 8, 2011 (UTC) :ummzlez dis iz teh rel zlda wki i dnt knw wat ur tlkin bot but dis teh rel 1 2 u knw. teh hylan atcal nd teh pgs mntionin hylanz r crct uz iz cnfuzd. b-sds wai u pro hylan nd nti hman???/? hmanz r gud'''-- C2' / 03:32, February 8, 2011 (UTC) Actually if you compare Link's ears to the ears of the npcs in Zela II they seem to purposely a lot bigger Oni Link 16:11, February 8, 2011 (UTC) um ok person who has magor spelling the offical site http://www.zelda.com makes no mention of this and this site is the ofical game site so if the information is not on the site it is uncannon. and C um do you speak english?DeirdreKent101 (talk) 19:12, February 8, 2011 (UTC) :That official site has more errors than you can count. We try not to even use it as a reference due to that. Pretty embarassing actually. --EveryDayJoe45 (talk) 21:31, February 8, 2011 (UTC) ::DeirdreKent, I was using hyperbole to make you understand that YOU are very hard to understand. Also, the official site basically has stoped updating on stuff like that since before TP(last time I checked) was released. Besides, to consider that website the only place for cannon is Kray-z.'-- C2' / 01:14, February 9, 2011 (UTC) I also noticed you said for all we know humans never dominate Hylians which isn't true at all. Indeed we might not be able to tell much from the NES games but A Link to the Past firmly displays Hylians as an extinct race Oni Link 16:59, February 9, 2011 (UTC) but they are domimint in every other game minus windwaker and pahatam hourglas. you all know abotu the time split theroy.--DeirdreKent101 (talk) 21:01, February 13, 2011 (UTC) so maybee aftyer link to the past teh population of hylians did recover--DeirdreKent101 (talk) 21:13, February 13, 2011 (UTC) Hylians aren't human!? I don't understand our definition of Hylains and Humans (well really we seem to call anyone without pointed ears human and anyone with them Hylian. What I don't understand is where we're getting this idea from.). Can anyone give me a quote that says that humans are a race separate from Hylians? Because I can give you quotes that call Hylians human: "The Moon Pearl will protect its bearer from the magical air of the Golden Land, so you can keep your human shape there."-Not sure who said this, but I'm pretty sure s/he was talking to Link, who has pointed ears, ALttP Human is used constantly to refer to pointy eared people in MM ("Hylian" does not appear in the text dump), I can provide lots of specific quotes if you want me to. "You humans are looking stranger every day. What happened?"-Can't seem to find who said this, but it might be a Goron judging from the text around it, and it is almost certainly talking to Link, who has pointed ears, OoA "Just who is this Nayru..? I can only see her as a monster in human guise."-Pretty sure this is Adlar, former adviser to the Queen, OoA (Nayru had pointed ears and is called Hylian in her infobox at the moment) "Goron or human, health is all that matters!"-Some Goron (Biggoron I believe), OoS "Here's a human I understand! Let me fill your satchel for you!"-Singing/Seed Loving Deku Scrub, OoS (note that s/he is specifically talking to Link, who again has pointed ears) "Thanks to Veran and Onox, the Flames of Sorrow and Destruction already flicker! And when we captured Zelda, the foolish humans gave us despair!"-Koume and/or Kotake, OoS "Once upon a time, long ago, the Koroks took on human forms, but when they came to live on the sea, they took these shapes."-Great Deku Tree, WW (referring to the Kokiri of course, who have pointed ears) "A Minish living in Minish Village. He speaks some human languages. He sees that Link is human with one look. He's a bit of a human enthusiast." -Festari's Figurine, MC ^There are numerous other uses of the word Human when referring to the people in MC, yet basically everyone in the game has distinctly pointed ears (the only use of the word Hylian in MC is "The Picori Blade and the Bound Chest spoken of in Hylian lore..."-Vaati). I picked this particular quote because it contains the phrase "Link is human". I could get more but I've gone on long enough as it is. So it seems to me that "human" in the Zelda universe is a generic term that can apply to Hylians, and is not a separate race. I'm not seeing any basis for the way we're currently using the word.--[[User:Fierce Deku|'Fierce']][[User talk:Fierce Deku|'Deku']] 09:13, February 20, 2011 (UTC) :The way I take it, Hylians are a very specific type of human where "Humans" are every other humanistic race taken as a whole. Just as there is one human race, there are many races of humans (Caucasian, Hispanic, Native American, ect.). Hylians are a very special human race that they can be to refereed by their specific human race while all other humanoids get no special classifications. That is just how I look at it and I could be completely wrong. This is something that needs to be cleared up though. --Birdman5589 (talk) 14:34, February 20, 2011 (UTC) ::We use this definition of "Human" because this subset is the only set of "Humans" in the general sense that does not fall under any other category. Although "Human" is used to refer to multiple races, "Humans" as this page describes them are the only people who are ''only called Humans. Some clarification is definitely needed, but as far as I know, there isn't another name that exists for the generic, non-Hylian, non-Gerudo Humans. Jedimasterlink (talk) 02:05, September 5, 2011 (UTC) :::Um, I understand everything you're saying, but I don't understand what action, if any, you are recommending we take. Maybe you're just clarifying and I'm only confused because I'm assuming this is in response to my recent edit as opposed to this old talk page topic?--[[User:Fierce Deku|'Fierce']][[User talk:Fierce Deku|'Deku']] 02:32, September 5, 2011 (UTC) :::I'm just explaining the reasons for what was there. I honestly have no idea how we should handle this. Something needs to be done, of course, but I'm still trying to figure out the best way to handle this. Jedimasterlink (talk) 06:13, September 5, 2011 (UTC) ::::I think if we have the actual "Human" page describe both the blanket term and the nameless race of round-eared humans, like it now does, we can mostly proceed as we have been. In some cases it might be necessary to clarify the Hylian/Generic Human deal, but on most pages other than this one, I expect we can probably just say human, and it's implied that they are generic humans by the fact that we did not use a more specific term.--[[User:Fierce Deku|'Fierce']][[User talk:Fierce Deku|'Deku']] 06:27, September 5, 2011 (UTC) :::::The way it has been made now has just made things more confusing. Now we can't even call the humans 'humans', without worrying about what human we are talking about. The way I think about is that human with a lowercase h, is the basic blanket term. But when we use a capital h, we are referring to the race this page was talking about. --EveryDayJoe45 (talk) 11:48, September 5, 2011 (UTC) ::::::That seems by far to be the smartest way to do it. I Lord of the Rings can do it with Man and man doing Human and human should be easy. It's not like we even have to use it much outtside of info boxes and the like. Oni Link 12:46, September 5, 2011 (UTC) :::::::What if we said something like, "Although the term "human" can apply to Hylians, Gerudos, and Humans, Humans are a unique race because (list characteristics)"? This acknowledges that other races are called humans, but allows us to use this page to refer specifically to Humans. Jedimasterlink (talk) 15:09, September 5, 2011 (UTC) ::::::::I'll agree with that. Additionally, I'll agree with the "Human"/"human" thing as well. Seems like combining those is the best way we can handle this at the current time. -'Minish Link' 16:38, September 5, 2011 (UTC) :::::::::Sounds good. Yeah, wording like Jedi's would make it easier to understand our use of "Human" elsewhere on the wiki. As long as this page clarifies up front that the term has multiple meanings/what those meanings are, then it's fine. Like I was saying we will have to make few if any changes elsewhere on the wiki, this page just needs to clarify how the word is actually used in Zelda.--[[User:Fierce Deku|'Fierce']][[User talk:Fierce Deku|'Deku']] 21:02, September 5, 2011 (UTC) Separate pages for "Human (race)" and "Human" in general Ok, so the word "human" is the only race name available for the people who mostly look like Hylians, but aren't. They have no distinctive race name, like Hylians or Gerudo. They are stuck going by the species name "human", which encompasses Hylians, Gerudo, and maybe some others also. Since this page and our use of the term in general is so confusing, I recommend we split this page and make a "Human (race)" page which is about the round-eared people who are currently the main topic of this page. The other page would be something like "Human (species)" (which is technically accurate), "Human (general)" (which clarifies the subject from a practical standpoint), "Human (term)", or just "Human". This page would state that human is a general term which applies to Gerudo, Hylians, and the "Human (race)". Each would have a redirecting header pointing to the other, which in and of itself would pretty clearly explain the two different uses of the word. Thoughts?--[[User:Fierce Deku|'Fierce']][[User talk:Fierce Deku|'Deku']] 06:40, February 13, 2012 (UTC) I can't see anything problematic with donig that Oni Link 15:23, February 13, 2012 (UTC) I agree with this. Although, I would like to see a Human (race) page and a Human (term) page, with simply Human being a disambig page. Jedimasterlink (talk) 18:02, February 13, 2012 (UTC) :My favorite version of this plan so far is what Jedi said, with plain "Human" as a disambig.--[[User:Fierce Deku|'Fierce']][[User talk:Fierce Deku|'Deku']] 02:51, February 14, 2012 (UTC) Bump. It's been a confusing topic for a long time now, and I think separate pages would really help clear it up. Any objections?--[[User:Fierce Deku|'Fierce']][[User talk:Fierce Deku|'Deku']] 07:09, February 27, 2012 (UTC) :Please just somebody do this. It was changed, and instead of being reverted, has sat here for months confusing how we term everything. Any solution is a better one than what we have turned this into. --EveryDayJoe45 (talk) 17:32, April 30, 2012 (UTC) According to the general agreement to solve this confusion implied by the current Human page, by splitting the group of human(oid) races and the Human "generic" race itself for peoples who do not have a specific defined race, I propose to proceed myself after a few days if nobody else disagrees. Concerning the Humans category, I think the best way is to dedicate it to the Human "generic" race itself for peoples who do not have a specific defined race. I think that a category grouping all the Human races is not really useful or necessary.WiseAdventurer (talk) 21:20, December 6, 2016 (UTC) :Go for it. Should have been done years ago. Oni Link 02:13, December 7, 2016 (UTC) ::I have just split the pages, there are surely still things to provide on them. There are page links to fix in thousands pages plus in some templates! I propose to use my bot to do it in the easiest and quickest way. If you agree, I could start tomorrow or later and do it during a few next days.WiseAdventurer (talk) 23:31, December 8, 2016 (UTC) :::Are we going to turn "Human" into a disambiguation page? With the current "Human" page being renamed to "Human (term)" like Fierce Deku mentioned? To me, that seems like the best way to organize it. —'Ceiling Master' 00:03, December 9, 2016 (UTC) ::There aren't as many links to change as it appears. Most of those references are from the Nav templates that just need to be changed once. Oni Link 03:36, December 9, 2016 (UTC) :::There are also at least the link on each concerned characters (round-eared humans in particular). ::CM, why not, it could be a good idea. If we decide this, we will have to fix all the links unless on Zeldapedia you accept to link to a disambiguation page.WiseAdventurer (talk) 13:16, December 9, 2016 (UTC) :::Fixing the links will not be an issue. Oni Link 14:50, December 9, 2016 (UTC) ::::OK. In any case, do not hesitate to ask me when needed.WiseAdventurer (talk) 19:14, December 10, 2016 (UTC) Round Eared Hylians More Ordinary then Hylians? Outside of the pointy ears allow hylians to hear the gods comment, there's no indication that round eared humans are any different from Hylians. We've seen plenty of magic using round eared humans in the series. At most, round ears seems to just show a human originated, or had ancestry outside of Hyrule. Delsait (talk) 08:31, December 5, 2016 (UTC) :For what its worth, in A Link to the Past, Sahasrahla does say Hylians had mysterious powers that the modern people of Hyrule lack. Oni Link 02:18, December 7, 2016 (UTC) :: Can we note that? Also the majority of people in a Link to the Past are still Hylians, with only a few round eared characters. Delsait (talk) 00:10, December 14, 2016 (UTC) :::Would someone tell me which game showed a (normal) human using magic, because if there was one then I don't remember it. I would also like to note that if Human and Hylian races are considered the same, then the Sheikahs and Lokomos would likewise fit the same category, as they are all humanoid species with seemingly no major physical differences. In fact, it would also apply to other (none-humanoid) species that are similar to each other.--Zakitaro (talk) 17:13, December 26, 2016 (UTC) ::::To quote the Human (race) article with information previously on this page "Others such as Syrup, Patch, Madam Couture, and The Lady possess magical powers." Though I should point out that we never do seem to get a good look at Syrup's ears. However she does hail from A Link to the Past where Hylians are (allegedly) much rarer and her relative Maple appears to have round ears (and should probably be added to that list) Oni Link 17:42, December 26, 2016 (UTC) :::Hmm, I guess most humanoid races are able to use magic in the Zelda universe.--Zakitaro (talk) 02:03, December 28, 2016 (UTC) :::Human and Hylian races are NOT considered the same but they are part of the global human group (of races), comparable to "Humanoid races" if you want, therefore concerning the point about Sheikahs and Lokomos, I put them as supposed races of the human group because this is the more rigorous way (for an encyclopaedia), there is no clear or explicit confirmation in any games as far as we know.WiseAdventurer (talk) 20:45, December 28, 2016 (UTC) :::For the record I'd still be up for not classifying Sheikah as a race since (as far as I could find) it's never actually referred to anything other than a tribe. We had a conversation about it somewhere where an anon was trying to argue adding something and when I suggested they might not be their own race (as race is defined in this series) they got really scared and practically begged not to demote them. I thought it was on the Impa or Sheikah page but I see nothing now :/ Hmm, maybe I'm just going crazy. Oni Link 03:50, December 29, 2016 (UTC) :::So then to sum it all up, do we (sort of) agree that Humans and Hylians are not the same, but rather similar looking creatures? By the way, The Japanese version uses the kanji "族" (which means race) when referring to the Kokiri (コキリ族), Goron (ゴロン族), Zora (ゾーラ族), Sheikah (シーカー族) and Gerudo (ゲルド族), so I assume the Sheikah and Gerudos are in fact a different race from the Hylian and Human races.--Zakitaro (talk) 13:32, December 29, 2016 (UTC) Yeah. Humans and Hylians are both referred to as Human (hence this page) but Humans as a species separate from Hylians are a definite thing (hence the other page). I guess you could say Humans, Hylians and (apparently?) Gerudo are all subraces of the human race similar to primates containing humans and monkeys. Oni Link 14:20, December 29, 2016 (UTC) This page`s necessity. So I don`t see why this page is necessary, since the races written here aren`t really human. Most of them have magical powers or other features which differentiate them from the humans shown in Link`s Awakening '' and ''Twilight Princess. When the villains refer to Link as "human", I think they are just referring to mortal rather than actual humans, at least in the Japanese version.--Zakitaro (talk) 09:36, August 16, 2017 (UTC) : Incorrect, many round eared humans are shown using magic and many hylians are shown ignorant of magic. Delsait (talk) 22:41, December 18, 2017 (UTC) ::Really? Excluding Skyloft, I presumed that magic is common knowledge in the world of LOZ. Also, would you be more specific as to the "humans" that used magic?--Zakitaro (talk) 03:12, December 27, 2017 (UTC) :: In any case though, the Hylian, Gerudo, Sheikah, and Zuna race aren't the same as the human race. They have clear physical differences and origin stories.--Zakitaro (talk) 09:27, December 28, 2017 (UTC)